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Author Topic: Simon Xt External Powered Siren  (Read 9197 times)

sscott0203

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Simon Xt External Powered Siren
« on: April 04, 2012, 05:19:33 PM »
I have had my Simon xt for about a year now and the internal siren and my little radio shack siren aren't cutting it anymore.  I plan on using a external power supply, transformer and relay to power a louder siren for my system. I have spend a couple days searching forums and researching this topic but am not 100% sure I understand how to properly wire it since I couldn't find any information specific to my system. After researching I decided to purchase the following and hope that these devices will work with what I want to do.

--Altronix SMP312CX - Single Output Power Supply Board. 12VDC @ 2.5A with 12VDC/7AH Battery and Plug-in Xfmr
Description:
2.5 amp @ 12VDC, Includes: 12VDC/7AH Battery & 16.5VAC/40VA Transformer

--Altronix RBSNTTL Ultra-Sensitive, Triggers from 3 to 24VDC at 1 MA, 12 or 24VDC operation 2 AMP DPDT Contacts

I'm still undecided on the siren but considering this:

ssx-52s-b-amseco-armored-siren-strobe-combination-blue-strobe

Rated Voltage   12VDC
Rated Current   560mA at 12VDC
Sound Output   120dB
Operating Voltage   6~14.4VDC
Flashing Rate   
Tamper switch contact capacity   0.3A, 12VDC

Can someone confirm that I purchased the correct power supply, relay and transformer?
I don't understand all the different ratings and specs for the transformer and power supply so I hope I got it right. Can anyone help me understand this a little better.

Seth


Quarterwave

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Re: Simon Xt External Powered Siren
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2012, 04:41:05 AM »
I think you are on the right track. Doing this is easy, so just don't over think it.

I have done these a couple of times. All you need (pretty much what you are talking) are a transformer for power, a battery to actually run the siren, a relay to take the 6v switched out from the Simon and trip the relay that connected 12V+ from your battery to your siren to make it blow. I did it with a SS30 or DS508, the big rectangular 30 watt sirens. They draw up to 1 amp, and it seems to work fine. I put the boards and such in a small metal enclosure, although I think I would use plastic next time.

The boards - charger/ps/battery board and relay are very basic Altronix or Honeywell units. The transformer I used was a standard 16.5 AC 40VA alarm unit, b/c the charger board has on-board regulation.

The cool thing about most electronics....if you can get an output you can do almost anything with it. See attached.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2012, 04:42:41 AM by Quarterwave »

sscott0203

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Re: Simon Xt External Powered Siren
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2012, 07:42:14 AM »
Thanks for the information and picture.  I do believe I'm over thinking it, not because the wiring part, but because I dont fully understand AC/DC/VDC/VAC/VA/Ma.  I was hesitant to purchase the above devices because I didnt know what kind of transformer i needed, there are so many different options like 16VAC/40VA or 24VAC/100VA or 28VAC/100VA.  I have no idea what the differences are between those?? 

Is it true that the Simon XT cannot turn off an external siren once it has been triggered?? I read this on another forum and wasnt able to find any other topics about it, If thats the case, what are my options? 

Quarterwave

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Re: Simon Xt External Powered Siren
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2012, 05:12:41 AM »
If you use the Altronix or Honeywell charger/ps board, you will need either a 16.5V 25VA or 16.5 25VA transformer, either will work. The 40VA just has more capacity to charge a bigger load, but you are only charging a small ub1250 or 1280 battery, so no big deal. VA is essentially Watts...they just tend to use VA (Volts times Amps) as a nomenclature in AC transformers, where DC is usually just expressed in Amps @ x Volts.

This is not the only way to do this deal, but these were the most common parts you can get from one vendor.

The output of the Simon is not "latching", and as long as you don't intentionally build your relay as latching, then No that is not true. The Siren will only operate while the switched is output is on, telling the relay to activate. Think of the Simon as a light switch. on is on, off is off. Someone may have been talking about a wirelessly triggered siren, which I have never seen on that really works.

Baja170

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Re: Simon Xt External Powered Siren
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2012, 05:25:44 AM »
I am working on the same type of setup that drives a 12V GSI internal 15W Speaker and outdoor ELK SP40 40W speaker.  I plan to use a 12V 7AH Gell cell or a pair in parallel with a battery tender hardwired to maintain battery health.  I did not order the Altronicx or any other relay because shipping cost as much as the relay but instead I found locally an ELK-924 (http://www.elkproducts.com/product-catalog/elk-924-sensitive-relay) which appears to be very similar.  I will be using an ELK-100 Siren Driver.  I plan to wire the ELK-924 like example one on the following PDF but only use a single channel 12V DC with the 15W speaker on the low output and the 40W on the high output of the ELK-100 Siren Driver both on YELP.  Link to ELK-924 ---> http://www.elkproducts.com/_literature_63585/ELK-924_Instructions


This seems like way over thinking but I think this will work right?  I plan to mount all this stuff in a plastic Radio Shack Project box and hide it along with a silenced Simon main control panel as I have 3 of the two way talking touch pads as well as iPhone/iPad apps and the online SafeMart site to control arming etc.

Oh yes, and I would be interested and have not been able to figure out from any documentation I have on the Simon XT if the output on HW1 is pulsed if fire is detected.  The ELK-100 driver is setup so that if HW1 did pulse for fire it would trigger a solid FIRE alarm instead of YELP what a single ON condition without a pulse of HW1 could provide.  Does anyone know?

Does anyone have any advice for me or any feedback on this setup please?
« Last Edit: May 15, 2012, 07:57:54 AM by admin »

Quarterwave

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Re: Simon Xt External Powered Siren
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2012, 06:34:52 PM »
There are 2 settings for the siren out on HW1...I think #1 is interior type, so it emulates the panel sounds, such as arming beeps, etc, and that one should pulse for fire...but I can't be 100% sure....I would just set it up and check it with a meter or test light to see what you get. I usually use #5 which is just outside siren...so it may pulse too...not sure.


Baja170

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Re: Simon Xt External Powered Siren
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2012, 04:01:34 AM »
Thank you very much for the info I will test it and report back what I find.  I have a feeling only the internal speaker mode will pulse from the research I have done.  I also plan on using HW2 as a NC tamper loop on my SP40 speaker setup as an external siren.  It has the extra leads to act as a tamper loop if I run 4 conductor wire to it which I plan to do.

Thank you again Quarterwave!

sscott0203

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Re: Simon Xt External Powered Siren
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2012, 07:33:09 PM »
Thanks for the info all. I finally just got around to installing everything that I listed above but I can't find accurate wiring information on the power supply, relay and siren. I'm hoping someone can provide me with that information.

Altonix SMP3 Power Supply
Altonix RBSNTTL Relay
Simon XT
Admeco 748 Dual Tone Siren

Left side of relay

TRG -
To HWIN2 on Simon Xt

POS +
DC (+) from Power Supply

C
?

NC
?

NO
Siren (+)




Right side of relay

TRG+
To DC Out on Simon Xt

Neg -
DC (-)  from power supply & Siren (-)

C
?

NC
?

NO
?

Quarterwave

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Re: Simon Xt External Powered Siren
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2012, 04:34:45 AM »
you need a + from the Simon XT DC OUT connected to TRG + and the TRG - is from the Simon XT common. That fires your relay. Then the only thing you are doing with the Siren is running the 12vdc + for it through the C and NO contacts to switch the siren on and off when the Simon triggers the realy via its output. Don't forget to program HW1 for #5 (see book).

sscott0203

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Re: Simon Xt External Powered Siren
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2012, 02:18:23 PM »
So.... Is this correct??


Left Side of relay                                           

TRG -      HWIN2 on  panel                 
POS +     DC +   from power supply     
                                                                       
C            jumper wire  to POS+                 
NC                                                       
NO         SIREN+                                   


Right Side of relay

TRG +    DCOUT on panel
NEG -     DC - from power supply & Siren -
C
NC
NO
« Last Edit: June 07, 2012, 02:38:41 PM by sscott0203 »

northerntreg

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Re: Simon Xt External Powered Siren
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2012, 04:38:10 PM »
This is the correct wiring procedure, found on another diy forum.
Hope it helps.

Simon XT DC out to POS on ELK 924
Simon XT HW1 I/O to NEG on ELK 924
Simon XT HW1 I/O to -T on ELK 924 (jumper to NEG)

Elk 924 n/o to Elk P624 pos

Elk 924 com to Siren pos
Elk P624 neg to Siren neg
« Last Edit: June 15, 2012, 01:34:16 PM by northerntreg »

aaxxeell

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Re: Simon Xt External Powered Siren
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2012, 04:03:49 PM »
hello, i got an issue with my 13-950 exterior siren.. i did follow manual instructions:
1. Placed Black wire on pos#1 Red on Pos#2
2. Turn supervision off
3. changed hw1 to option 5

No sound when alarm is triggered. but.. if i invert the wire (black&red) it does sound inmediatly, even if the alarm is not armed. (thats how i know the siren does work at least)

I also installed the resistor & changed supervision ON.. when i do this the siren works for 1/2 second and stops.. but it does not sound when the alarm triggers..

any ideas?? thanks!! =)

Alarmeee

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Will this work??
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2012, 11:36:34 AM »
I'm thinking about kinda the same setup as Sscott0203. 2 things...

I am wondering what's so special about the Ademco 748? If I look at the specs, the DSC SD-30W 30 WATT DUAL TONE SIREN is louder and considerably less expensive...  Is that correct? Would it work?

Also, I think I can get the Elk 924 relay (that Baja170 speaks of) for cheaper than the Altonix RBSNTTL Relay (where I am located). So would the following combination work?
Simon XT
DSC SD-30W (Is there any reason why I should go for the Ademco 748 in stead?)
Altonix SMP3 Power supply
12VDC/7AH Battery and Plug-in Xfmr
Elk 924 relay (Any reason why I should stick with Altronix?)
« Last Edit: June 25, 2012, 09:25:55 AM by Alarmeee »

Quarterwave

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Re: Simon Xt External Powered Siren
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2012, 03:40:43 PM »
The 5x8 30W sirens are all stamped out in the same plant...go for cheap. I pay about $10 for them.

pmaster

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Re: Simon Xt External Powered Siren w/ Altronix RBSNTTL relay
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2012, 06:53:06 AM »
I found a lot of misleading information on the web while I was trying to hook up my external siren to my Simon XT ver 1.4. Although I finally figured it out, I hope this helps save someone else hours of aggravation. First off you need to go into "dealer" mode to set up H0/1(which is going to be your negative trigger terminal) to setting #6 to change from internal to external alarm. TRIGGER- Wire the other trigger wire to the DC out (+) terminal right next to it. Place that (+)DC out(which is the positive trigger) to the (+)trigger on the relay and the H0/1(-) to the (-)trigger terminal on the relay.  TRANSFORMER- Place the (+) from your 12v tranformer to the (+)in terminal on the relay and the (-) transformer wire on to (-) on the (-)in on the relay. (YOU ONLY NEED TO DO THIS ON ONE SIDE) Put a jumper wire from the (+)in(your 12 v tranformer) terminal on the relay to the (C) terminal on the relay. Now for your SIREN- put the (+) of the siren to the NO of the relay, then the (-) of the siren with the (-) from the transformer and BAM your done. You can also put the supplied resistor in across siren wires and enable "supervised" on the control panel if you want that option. I hope this helps somebody .

« Last Edit: August 12, 2012, 12:22:41 PM by admin »

 

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